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Vicki's Vision »

 

An Interview with Vicki Johnston
Conducted by Elizabeth Moore in March of 2001

E.M: You mentioned your admiration for Butterfly Hill and how she represents a hero not just for the kids but for us all. How do you see having a hero as beneficial to children?

Vicki: As guides and mentors, we have to reach the emotions of the child. We can't just go from the head with rational and concrete information. We have to fire their enthusiasm. We can do this with stories that capture children's imaginations. A hero on an adventure gets their attention. They want adventure themselves. It's in their genes.

When we put worthy heroes in front of them, we serve the whole. Heroes and heroines who are altruistic are way beyond, light years beyond, sports heroes. They have value too, but on a scale of 1 to 10, in my opinion, sports heroes rate about a 2. We want to offer children examples of heroes that don't just show courage or perseverance for the sake of a game. It's better if these qualities serve a noble vision - one that benefits the whole.

I have enjoyed telling the children about Butterfly Hill because she had a vision to save not just this one tree, Luna, but millions of trees. She wanted humanity to realize that people will pay dearly for cutting down so many trees. Her vision was to help the planet and the whole human family. And that vision is what kept her in a tree for two years! She almost lost heart several times because it was so hard. There was biting cold and people making fun of her. She had to face people trying to scare her out of the tree with a helicopter; At one point she faced down that 'copter while swaying dangerously on a branch 180 feet in the air, hanging on for dear life.

What a metaphor for life for all of us! She showed us what it is like to endure great difficulty and yet to hang on with all your might - not just for yourself, but for the good of the whole. Exemplary heroes and heroines like Butterfly Hill come from all over the world. What a gold mine of potential these heroes offer for infusing our lives with living ethics.

Fairytales can also offer important heroes. For instance there's the story of the water of life in which the brothers have to carry the precious water through these different obstacles. They're taking it to their father to save his life. This could be symbolic of a great quest for perhaps God, or the Christ Spirit, or the Higher Self - that dimension which carries the spiritual water of life.

Also, some of the people in our own lives are heroes. We can look at our own moms and dads, aunts and uncles, or whomever . We may find that they are persevering through obstacles because of their vision of something good. So heroes can be famous people, characters from fairytales, and people we know personally. We can read books about them or even watch the Biography Channel. We can tell or write the children stories that are composites of lives that exhibit courage, dedication, and altruism.

Any lives that show uncommon dedication to the betterment of others form pathways or maps for the children to go by in their lives. These examples help us all keep the faith and go that extra mile for some worthy cause.

E.M: It's clear that you are opposed to teaching children to be competitive with one another. Your focus is on cooperation. There are so many obvious forces in life that compete (like magnetism, for example) which in many cases help us achieve stability. Can you elaborate on these feelings of opposition?

VICKI: It's not so much opposition, as standing for something better, something more life affirming. Competition is a very real thing in our lives. Our corporations and schools are organized so that people set themselves against each other. Skill in competition is something our civilization has taken to the hilt. We know how to turn everything, from games to education, to work into competition.

Children like competition. But let's get to the core of what psychologically healthy children really like. They like a certain tension. Our challenge is to include that tension which makes a game or a quest attractive. Instead of pitting them against one another, why not think how they can pit themselves against previous scores, or limitations. How can they strive to "best" themselves.

There are cooperative games in which they have to pull together as a group. Then it becomes a group of people pitting themselves against adversity and obstacles. For instance we have one game here in which the the players have to help each other climb a mountain in order to reach the summit. It's important to design games and activities in which the children don't pit themselves against one another to win. Rather than obstacles being other peopl, they can be circumstances such as difficult terrain, poverty, disasters, natural and manmade, illiteracy, handicaps, etc.

There's a wonderful book that was published in the seventies that is called the new Games Book. In these games the players compete against forces such as gravity, inertia, or other physical limitations. For example, you sit back to back and hook elbows together. The players have to support one another as they achieve a standing position. Or, you have a line of people that whips around the playground. The challenge is to keep an unbroken line, to lose no one. There are games with a huge Earth ball and human pile up games. In the parachute game the players work both a against and with the forces of nature, but most importantly, they must work as a team.

We all know how to compete, but we don't know much about the cooperative spirit. The competitive urge has gone so far out of balance we've got to develop the cooperative aspect of our natures. It's urgent! We can prove that games based on cooperation can be just as fun and satisfying as competing. In fact, games where there is competition can drive wedges between children . In the classroom it is demoralizing for some and inflates the egos of others. In play and striving for goals, we can have the same degree of tension that is in competition and yet every single child can feel wonderful! They can experience the exhilaration that we feelwhen, as a group, we all pull together and accomplish a worthy goal.

E.M: What do we do unintentionally to obstruct our children's potential?

VICKI: One of the most common ways is to say something negative about and around our children from the time they are very little. "Oh, so and so is very shy." Or, "He has two left feet," Or, "He never does this or that." Or, "He's not very smart in this." The worst thing is for children to hear us say something negative about themselves. Even if it's just general conversation, as soon as we say that negative thing, it just attaches itself to them. Only some strong counter force can save the child from this tenacious impression of himself.

We have been working with ourselves for years, listening to our own phraseology. We have learned that most adults communicate, in situation after situation all day long, using the negative. So all the child brain hears is what not to do. For example, if we say, "Don't forget your lunch," the brain hears, "Forget your lunch." So we have learned to say, "Remember your lunch," or "Is there something you need to remember?" We try to put everything in the positive. We give them friendly challenges such as "I wonder how fast we could . . ." or "let's see how carefully we can . . ." This is the opposite of accusations such as, "You always. . .," or "You never. . ."

If we listen to ourselves, we come to the disconcerting discovery that negatives are a big part of our conversation with our children. There are so many things that we have to remember and get done during the day. If we must nag, at least, let's help the listening brains with positive phraseology. Children are actually designed to be as cooperative and responsive as they are independent. We have to rethink our communication in order to help them.

Actually, every thing they hear, is putting pathways in their brains. Let's take a close look at all those dead-ends we put into their brains. If we use positive phraseology, the brain builds in open-ended constructive paths. The results of either closed, resistant thinking or open, responsive thinking reverberates into all aspects of our lives. It is an accumulation of 64,000 positives or negatives from our childhoods, which will affect 64,000 x 64,000 actions. Our objective as parents and mentors is the restructuring of our minds, overcoming what we probably heard when we were children.

E.M: How can we as parents encourage our children to focus on the passion for doing what they love? There are clearly so many opportunities for us to explore, how do we know when to sop exploring and start focusing.

VICKI: It's important for them have activities they love available to them. I was just reading the "Edison Trait." Edison was the most likely candidate for the ADD label imaginable. He was the energetic type, off to this, then off to that, not able to be still for a minute. His was the kind of energy that makes a traditional teacher want to pull her hair out when all she wants is a nice orderly environment with everybody just marching along doing the same thing. This is the least ignorable type of Edison Trait child.

But Edison had an insightful mother. It was obvious from the very beginning that he just loved science. She took him out of school and homeschooled him. She gathered everything scientific that she could and even set up a lab for her insatiable scientist in the basement of their home. She probably shut out the voices of teachers saying, "He's behind in grammar right now." She had to just go with the child. That's the foremost thing.

My heart goes out to all the parents and teachers who are so devoted to our children, so dedicated to their welfare, wanting successful outcomes for their lives as a result of the education we provide. Sometimes what happens is we find out they're not going to be a perfect replica of our image of what they should be. Parents and teachers start applying pressure. In this case the schools laud each measurable academic gain. But the academic gains are generally miniscule compared to the build up of a habitual, psychological resistance. The tragedy is that this internal blockade obscures some natural passion that was meant to flow, becoming a torrent of enthusiasm.

So what happens when the misery and resistance of the children finally shakes the parents awake? They say, "O.K. this isn't working, we're ready to try something radical now. Let's just see what their passion is." Then the parents are probably in for a very difficult transition. It generally takes months, a month for every year the child has been in oppressive schooling, before they will ever begin to think about any kind of academics. They just pull back from these things totally because they're so turned off.

For example, if I get a third grader, it takes a minimum of three months and if I get a fifth grader, it takes a minimum of five months for them to use their freedom for anything other than escape from academics Finally, when they know it's totally their choice, they begin to slip back into activities that have a connection with their own passion. One may write stories, another may initiate a researches on animals. Someone else may enjoy three dimensional inventions. The way into the child is his special proclivities and interests.

E.M: I love what you say about New Eden Schools! Tell me more about that and how we can make that more of a reality.

VICKI: This idea started as a little seed. Now its really expanding my idea of education. I really think that children need to live, well, in Eden! These Edens are ecological microcosms. We already have one here. However, there's much more to be done to enrich it with diversity and complexity. But that's the joy of it. That's the fundamental reason for humans being on earth. Not to conquer, but to creatively enter into holistic, sustainable processes.

When we have a choice of where to put our money for education, we tend to think first of big elaborate buildings. Shiny, new, big schools really impress parents! But it's far more important to have several acres of natural greenery, including large trees. Children need to haul logs, clear little nesting sites, and so on. They need to participate in natural systems with mentors who revere life on earth. They need to participate in composting, collecting animal manure, and harvesting. We take the goat and rabbit manure and mix it in with the compost for the garden. The adult gardeners need to tell the children that animal poop nitrogenates the soil and nourishes the fruit trees and garden. When I garden with the little ones, I refer to the soil as a comfortable bed for the little seed, the mulch as a protective blanket, the rain as a drink from Mother, and sunlight as Father calling his children awake. Even little tiny children catch the spirit, the miracle of it all.

I was just reading "Smart Moves" by Carla Hannaford about children in an African village (in Le Sotho) who care for the animals. Children love animals. For them to have that responsibility for our fellow creatures is very important for their growth. In this Edenic school we have to refer a lot to the wisdom of tribal cultures. Carla Hannaford interviewed and studied people living in these villages and guess what? These children, before they even started school at 7 years old, had the responsibility of tending the animals, helping with weaving baskets and cooking.

Another aspect of this holistic life is participating in natural rhythms. The whole tribe in LeSotho gathers as a community to eat, then sing, and then tell stories as the sun is going down. The drums beating in the background lull the children to sleepiness. The community is part of the rhythm of the Earth.

Contrast this with the way Americans are thinking: "Oh, Gosh, I have to make sure my child is ready for kindergarten. I have to get him exposed to the alphabet and writing, and learning his numbers so that he can read, write, and do math early so he'll be able to get into college some day." Well, guess who does better on the assessment tests? On three of the tests, the children from the village did equally as well as the American children. On seven or eight of these, they did much better than the child raised in the nature-overriding press of the modern world.

We, in our arrogance have left behind the feminine aspect of culture, which forms a growth-enhancing womb around the child. The feminine aspect would encourage the whole brain learning which is lacking in technological societies. I'm not saying we should give up technology. In these Edens our scientists and inventors are the architects of new kinds of cities and technologies that exist synergistically with nature, rather than being severed from her and destructive to her. Now that's a wonderful thought!

We just need to reach back to the village and retrieve the other half of the human being, the feminine element. We can see children as recapitulating the footsteps of human in order to optimally build their intelligence. This recapitulation includes ample arts and crafts, and tending animals and gardens. We need to embrace the Earth which Joseph Chilton Pearce says is our matrix or womb for our whole life.

E.M: There are inarguably so many more regimented structures in our educational processes. But there are so many children. Besides being medicated, these kids are desensitized to violence and death through media, hence the justification for more and tougher discipline How would you suggest managing these children?

Vicki: Just like Monty Roberts (the Horse Whisperer) learned, there is no place for tough discipline. Monty Roberts' father broke horses with chains. Monty was vehemently opposed to this. He learned to speak the horse's language. With love, patience, and communication on the horse's terms, he built a relationship with the horse based on love.

I know some parents of teenagers who are alarmed at the weedend behavior of their teens. Ignorant, irresponsible parents actually allow drug and alcohol parties right in their homes. In other cases children take advantage of their parents' absence consume as much alchohol and drugs as they can into the morning hours. These youths, who know no joy at school, most in fact despise it, live lives of bored confinement. Their natures have been suppressed in regimented systems since they were little. These unfulfilled youths are prime candidates for drug and alcohol induced highs. Sadly, our sleepwalking society, obsessed with measurement and control, doesn't get the connection. The stakes are high. These parents are in deep distress, their teenagers in grave danger because the society has violated their souls.

The current tendency is to satisfy abnormal and insatiable appetites for things and to make sure that children are always entertained (so that we are free from having to interact with them). Couple this kind of home life with dehumanized, rule driven life in corporate schools. Add to this microwaved meals and schools that stick junk food and cola vending machines everywhere to support their sports programs. The sleepwalkers don't see an explosive situation involving physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual stress. They live in a self-deceptive haze of good ole American values and apple pie.

We have to study children, learn to speak their language, and work from there on their behalf. Instead of family lives of high tech diversions and sated appetites on the one hand, and dull oppressive schooling on the other, let us seek to offer them the recipe for joy. Let us scan their faces daily for enthusiasm and joy. Let's create environments in which they can find fulfilling self-expression and self-discipline. Such people don't need artificial highs.

Also children can only learn love through love. They can only learn compassion through compassion. Empathy is our most powerful asset. And this is not to be confused with an insipid sweetness, which turns out to be weak self-love. To empathize takes intelligence and strength. This should be the number one trait of all who work with children. Yet, I would say that a minority of educators exhibit this crowning quality of right human relations.

E.M: You focus on the soul of our children, relating it to the soul of the earth. Why do you believe adults have moved our focus away from the awareness of our souls?

VICKI: Don't you think we've just gotten caught up in materialism, acquisition, and left brain intellects? When I was a child, Sputnik was on everyone's lips. So, the big race was on. What was valued was the science and math part of the human being. There's been a big race and a focus that has narrowed our view of what we are.

There are two opposite focuses: the one on the intellect, saying,"You're nothing if you don't have an intellect." And then the ones on the body are saying, "You're nothing if you don't have a beautiful body." Our lives are busier, families more fragmented with every decade. Maybe we've gotten away from the soul because we've been participating in a lengthy divine learning experience. Maybe we've needed to find out what it is like to get just about as far away from the soul as we can possibly can. Finally, the day dawns when we realize something is missing. None of our familiar pursuits seem to fill up the hollow feeling inside.

This is a pivotal point. The danger lies in the temptation to get a prescription drug so we can feel like everything is fine. The higher path is to say, "Something's missing and I'm going to find out what it is within myself that I need to develop so that nothing's missing. That inner something will be a passion, something to work for that's larger than our limited idea of ourselves. The universal law it that the expressed passion not only brings yours truly happiness, but others as well.

Furthermore, once we begin to tap that inner something, we begin pulling this joyous, constructive energy through ourselves that bathes our brains in feel-good hormones. That's the energy of the soul. This is the energy that says it's not enough to appear to be this our that. This energy doesn't try to prove it has a higher intellect , or more of anything than some one else. The current from the soul intends worthwhile creations and feels unspeakable gratitude for the people and opportunities that come our way when we align our lives with spiritual currents.

Right here in this community there are so many reasons to feel gratitude. The heart-filled, deep thinking people we get to associate with, the beautiful children, the lovely grounds. Working, teaching, and learning in the community is very difficult and often painful. But the joys, the reasons to be grateful, far exceed those of an easier path.

One way back to the soul is to just be still and feel profound gratitude. If we sit and think about this long enough we may be surprised how long the list is. Oprah had a wonderful idea with her gratitude journal. No doubt many lives have been changed by participating. The thing about gratitude is that we begin to feel so good that we want to do something to make someone else feel good about life.

If we want our children to be in touch with their soul, the first thing we have to do is not obstruct who they are. This is a sacred mission. Our task is to celebrate their individuality. Society tempts us to step in with so many fears and judgments. It's those coercions from those fears and judgments that begin to cut our children off from their soul. When children are joyous that's a major clue.

Some people think, "A child's joy is no clue. I would have been happy doing nothing all though my childhood." They don't realize that resistance to learning and working is a warped state, the result of being forced to do what others think we should be doing. When we carefully nurture children and cherish their natural modes of self expression, we communicate soul to soul.

Navigators of multidimensional currents, don't block the swirling energies. They go white water rafting on the currents of the soul.

E.M: You have addressed education as a whole, however, I hear you directing your thought more toward pre/K through elementary curriculum. How do you feel about education at the university level?

VICKI: The Courage To Teach is an excellent book by Palmer. He has a lot to say about really teaching people to think and opening up universities.

When I'm speaking with a Ph.D., I'm expecting to converse with a person who's on the cutting edge of things. I'm not expecting to be talking with a person who knows all kinds of statistics and jargon and yet is applying this in very traditional ways. For instance, during my post graduate studies, several of the professors of education were involved in research or field studies in traditional classrooms. These weren't for the purpose of major changes. They were studying things like seating arrangements, temperature changes, etc. within the established structure. To me this is like doing studies of zebras, lions or elephants in caged enclosures. What do these studies of creatures out of their natural habitats and groups tell us about their natures or reaching their potential? Nothing. In fact, in relation to noteworthy educational reform, the artificial environment renders the results of the studies null and void.

On the other hand, some college professors are encouraging real innovation in education. A sterling example is Howard Gardner. His theory of multiple intelligences is a great boon to humanity. It can revolutionize the way we teach. The universities are meant to be the educational think tanks. Those that have the courage, the heart and the vision to speak for fundamental changes in schools, rather than new jargon and veneer paste ons, carry the torch of true culture.

But then what happens to those fresh, enthusiastic new teachers, fresh from college, who enter the system? Parents and teachers are in a fear-coercion loop that shuts out real change. The unthinking products of the system seem unable or unwilling to think beyond spelling words, multiplication tables, memorized facts, control, testing, and measurement. In the late sixties and seventies we had this burst of fresh energy that just died. It's a tragedy. Since then the rules, regulations, and standardization of the system has maddeningly insured the demise of freedom, creativity, and heart in the classroom. Now our only answer to the growing threat of violence is to create mini polices states in high schools. Do you know that here in Texas there are schools that forbid students to talk in halls and restrooms? How can school personnel and parents sleepwalk through this inhumane madness?

If only we could foster more of a connection between the genuine university think tanks and superintendents, principals, and teachers. Together they could change the parents' thinking. Perhaps if schools had closer connections to universities than to the state, they wouldn't be so resistant to change.

Recently when I spoke with a group of teacher education students, I asked them what changes they would like to see in schools. The majority of them spoke of more heart. They wanted more humane, personal, sensitive relationships. They remembered the pain of the insensitiveness of the system. They also remembered those few special teachers who related to them with heart.

E.M: What do you suggest to bring more heart into education?

VICKI: The root cause of our problems is fear and ignorance. Mainly human beings address these with coercion and superficial values. We can only reach the dynamic soul of the human being in freedom. This potential that peeps at us through special talents and inclinations of the children can only respond to encouragement, inspiration, and supportive environments. Competition, coercion, and boredom prevent the full flowering of thousands of children. Docily completing homework assignments and making A's has practically nothing to do with the child's real potential.

The new philosopher scientists such as Frijof Capra, Elisabet Sahtoris, and Edward O. Wilson are saying we have gone way overboard in our mechanistic thinking. The products of our sciences, severed from nature and each other, are destroying our planet. The attitudes of dominance and control have led to rape and desecration of the elements and systems that are our very life. Identical attitudes and practices have a suffocating stranglehold on the hearts and minds of our children.

These philosopher scientists are urging a synthesis of the branches of sciences, so that myopic soltuions don't continue to destroy an ecosystems with chemical invasions. They are urging us to reconnect with nature. They are using vocabulary such as deep ecology, ethics, and holonic or systems within systems.

In our schools, the natural inclinations of our children have been just as desecrated by the partitioned, mechanistic view of life. It's actually a life-suppressing view. The factory, now corporate model, has killed out the feminine, nurturing, holistic, whole brain relationship with the child.

Just as we need to return to understanding of and appreciation for nature surrounding us, we need to return to the child nature. The best way I can think of is a modern day version of the village that realizes its intimate connection with the Earth and the global village. This free, dynamic society is filled with mentors performing meaningful tasks: gardening, constructing, communicating (verbal and written), cooking, creating, innovating. The community insures that the collective life it offers is intensely interesting to the children. Different elders will naturally be key mentors of certain children. Our real role is patiently assisting children who insist on learning what we know and participating in what we're doing. Also we can initiate whatever courses we want to in the village. Willing attendees will determine whether our courses make or not.

The community learning center can include full time teachers, parent teachers, and experts who offer courses. The courses can include all ages or any ages. The centers can include unschoolers, homeschoolers who come and go, and children who stay all day under the tutelage of a new breed of teachers.

Our challenge is to captivate our audience, not hold them captive. Children listen willingly to stories, not lectures. So let modern day storytellers weave the information of science, history, and culture, into interesting stories. Let us enact and dramatize the stories to bring them to life. Let the villages be New Edens in which the society actually lives the principles of sustainability and deep ecology right on the grounds. Let the villages be community learning centers where all are learners and all are teachers. Let them form networks with learning centers all over the world. Let them be wombs of universal brotherhood and peace.